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Engine Build Sanity Check...

mhass302

Guest
First off, let me apologize if I started this thread in the wrong location. I'm new to this forum and wasn't sure if it should go here or under the 87-93 GT general. And, keeping with the theme, sorry for such a long first post.

Over the next year I am starting to restore/upgrade my fox (speed density and 5-speed manual). I plan on addressing the the engine, interior, exterior and suspension. The engine has 105,000-miles and is bone stock. The only mods are shorty unequal headers, off-road H-pipe and a flow master exhaust -- all of which were installed in 1999 while still in high school right after I bought the car.

Moving forward... budget isn't an issue, although I don’t want to waste money.

The car is not my daily driver, nor will it be, and I do not want a track car. I want to be able to cruise around on the weekends, go to some cars & coffee events, etc. but have some fun while getting there. I'd like to approach 300-hp, naturally aspirated if at all possible. The engine parts I have listed come in around $4,000 new and I am sure I could save a few hundred by going through a junkyard and looking on forums and craigslist.

I’d like to retain the T5 tranny, knowing I will need a HD clutch assembly (planning Ford Racing 10.5” 10-spline) and I will certainly add sub frame connectors when I do the suspension (springs, shocks, struts, sway bars and control arms).

I have a set of 3.73 Ford Racing gears still in the box that I will install and I plan to convert to 5-lug axles (planning to stay with 28-spline because I understand they are capable of handling up to 350rwHP – please let me know if this is inaccurate). I’ll also install a shirt throw shifter.

So, with the background out of the way, let me get into my build plan. As the title of the post says... I am looking for a sanity check to verify the items are compatible and to ensure I am not overdoing an area or spending money on a mod that in my build case won't help or may even hurt. And, of course a tune will follow.

Here is my build plan:

1. Convert to MAF, and use a 75mm MAM (http://www.latemodelrestoration.com...bra-50L-75Mm-Black-Pro-M-Mass-Air-Meter-For-2)

2. Fender-well intake

3. 75mm TB & EGR Spacer

4. Fuel Injectors 24-lb, 255lph pump

5. '93 Cobra upper/lower intake

6. GT40p heads

7. 1.7 Roller Rockers

8. B303 Cam (as I understand it offers good low-end tq and sig top end power over 4,000rpm)

9. Underdrive pulleys

10. MSD Ignition Kit (6AL Box & Pro-Billet Distributer)

11. 1-5/8” equal length short headers

12. X-pipe, no cats (car will have “street-rod or historic” tags to avoid maryland emission checks)

13. Catback exhaust, 2.5”


The few areas of uncertainty I have with this build plan:

- Is the 75mm TB too much, would a 70mm be better served in this application?

- 255lph Fuel pump too much or do I go 190lph?

- 24-lb injectors sufficient? I have no further engine plans beyond this list so 30-lb seemed excessive.

- With the list above should I port the lower?

- Should I consider an E303? I understand the e-cam offers excellent low-mid range TQ and may be better suited for a track application and not a daily driver.

- 1.6 rockers with either the b- or e-cam a better combination that the 1.7?

- Is it even necessary to do the rockers & the cam? Or am I duplicating effort for little/no gain?

I realize there are MANY other options just from brand alone so constructive feedback would be the most beneficial, not brand bias. Again, I don’t want to get too wild so a set of Canfield heads are not necessary as I’ve no desire to attain over 400rwHP.

Lastly, I have nothing but time to complete this build; this will be a hobby for me, working on it a few hours a night, couple nights a week for the next year. As I mentioned I am also doing the interior (ripping out the grey interior and converting it to all black), suspension/wheels and the exterior to include replacing all of the weather-stripping.

I don’t think I left anything out.

Thanks in advance,
 
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Blown347

Moderator
Staff member
Welcome!
Here's just my .02:

First It sounds to me like you would like something reliable, torquey, but mild is that about accurate?

If that is the case, I wouldn't bother with the gt40p heads. unless you have come up on a set that have been extensively ported, polished, have a valve job and correct valve springs for your cam, then by the time you do these things you are in just as much money as a nice aluminum out of the box head that will cover your goals. I would suggest something like an AFR 185 or edelbrock performer. Solid street heads that give you the power and torque that you're looking for without breaking the budget. A stock set of gt40p's with your plans will probably net you around 270 flywheel hp with tuning, which would really just be 220-240 at the wheels. not really what your goals sound like to me.

If you're set on the gt40p's, the 75mm TB may be a little finicky at idle as it will likely pull more air then you need. with one of the above mentioned heads, or something similar, you won't have a problem.

again if you keep the gt40's, the 190lb and 24lb combo will be fine, but to reach your goals the 30's and 255 would be a better option. the 190lb pump should be sufficient, but you may over power the 24lbers.

If you want to have a cobra manifold for looks, then definitely port match the lower to the heads, and have the runners at least cleaned of any casting flash in both the upper and lower. Again heads will make a dramatic impact on how much the intake will affect you reaching your power goals. with good heads you will be there no problem, will gt40s, the manifold will likely need good porting, polishing etc along with the heads to get you there.

an e-303 is a good street cam, but it isn't that much money to just contact ed curtis and have a custom cam made for your application. that would be the route i recommend. it will make the most power while still keeping it's street ability and idle where you want it. and the 1.6's will be just fine, no reason to go to 1.7s unless you want bigger lift which sacrifices idle quality with no real power gains in a small CI motor like your plan is.

on the flip side of all this head, cam and intake talk, to immediately reach the power you want, you could get a complete trick flow top end that would get you there without the guessing and custom work. the trick flow track heat package comes with everything, rockers, hardware, cam, heads, manifold, throw your throttle body and CAI on it with some injectors and let the 300 hp rip!
 

mhass302

Guest
Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

I looked at the Top End Kits from Trick Flow (http://www.latemodelrestoration.com...-50L-Trick-Flow-Street-Burner-Top-End-Kit-Blk & http://www.latemodelrestoration.com...g-50L-Trick-Flow-Track-Heat-Top-End-Kit-Black) and other companies but was under the impression that the HP/TQ would be too much for my T5 (both advertised in the mid-300s). This is why I was trying to replicate such a kit out of less aggressive Ford products knowing the max HP flow on the Cobra intake was suitable for the stock T5.

So, if that is not a real concern then I will certainly go with a Trick Flow Top End Kit and call it a day. No need to reinvent the wheel.
 
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Blown347

Moderator
Staff member
T-5s are kind of a luck of the draw thing. They will last if you don't beat on them, and sometimes they will break under stock power. I had a stock t-5 behind my supercharged 347 that lasted for almost 2 years of severe beating and track time. I wouldn't be concerned with the trans for what you are trying to do.

On the flip side, an astro performance a-5 gearset in that trans and you will NEVER break it.
 

mhass302

Guest
Thanks again.

So, in piecing this info together....

1) Fenderwell intake
2) SD to 75mm MAM conv
3) 75mm TB & Spacer
4) Trick Flow Street Burner Top end Kit (alum heads, up[r/lwr intake, cam, rockers)
5) 30-lb inj w/ 255lph Fuel pump
6) pulleys
7) msd ignition
8) 1-5/8" headers
9) X-pipe
10) 2-1/2" exhaust

Did I miss anything? No neeed to change fuel rails w/ a 30-lb inj/255 fuel pump combo right?
 
Last edited:

Blown347

Moderator
Staff member
Thanks again.

So, in piecing this info together....

1) Fenderwell intake
2) SD to 75mm MAM conv
3) 75mm TB & Spacer
4) Trick Flow Street Burner Top end Kit (alum heads, up[r/lwr intake, cam, rockers)
5) 30-lb inj w/ 255lph Fuel pump
6) pulleys
7) msd ignition
8) 1-5/8" headers
9) X-pipe
10) 2-1/2" exhaust

Did I miss anything? No neeed to change fuel rails w/ a 30-lb inj/255 fuel pump combo right?

Honestly I wouldn't run underdrive pulleys if I were you. I have them on my LX and the rumors are true. You will have charging problems and may even run hotter. I had to take the alternator pulley off and run the stock one and even now I'm not really happy with it. I'd stick with the stock pulleys and just run an electric fan w/ a fan controller.

And the fuel rails is dependent on the intake manifold you run, so you have to check on the trick flow manifold. I believe it accepts stock rails, and if not it may come with trick flow rails.

Other then that a good aluminum radiator would be a good idea too, but not absolutely necessary. Also get an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and a chip to have tuned after the build is done to optimize the combo.

And the exhaust setup you listed should be more than sufficient for this build.

Last thing, I'd call trick flow and talk to them about their kit. There may be a couple odds and ends that you may need and at the very least they may recommend things that work best with their kit.
 

Blown347

Moderator
Staff member
What about this set up: http://www.latemodelrestoration.com...-50L-Satin-V-3-Si-Trim-Low-Boost-Vortech-Supe

Which would be a better set up, the SC or the trick flow kit?
Super charger on a stock motor would make more power, but be warned, you will still have to get a complete fuel system and a tune is necessary. Plus centrifugal blowers will need to be rebuilt every 3 or so years. More often if it sees a lot of abuse.

I would just build the top end with a trick flow kit. It will have a lot more low end torque, which is a lot more fun on the street, and be much more reliable.
 

mhass302

Guest
What about this set up: http://www.latemodelrestoration.com...-50L-Satin-V-3-Si-Trim-Low-Boost-Vortech-Supe
Which would be a better set up, the SC or the trick flow kit?

No real interest in a S/C for the reasons Blown2347 has mentioned, plus I want mine NA.

Still searching the classifieds for some good used items. I found one local guy with a Polished & Ported Cobra Intake, 30-lb inj, gt40p heads and a 75mm TB, 65MM MAF for 30-lb injectors and an e303 for $800.

He said he had it on his 331 stroker but is now going with a blower setup… I may go that route because it would likely get me to my 300-HP number and save me some coin even though I was leaning away from a set of gt40p heads after the great feedback above.

As an aside, Santa was kind to me and brought me:

- A complete molding/weather-stripping set; door, sunroof, hatch, outer door belt and seal, firewall to hood, and roof rail
- A shifter boot & bezel replacement kit w/ a 2003 Cobra style leather and aluminum shifter handle
- New rear hatch carpet to include seat backs in black with Running Pony Logo
- New rear quarter windows
- BBK 255-lph Fuel Pump

Come on Spring!
 

Blown347

Moderator
Staff member
I would say if it's a good option for you go for it, but I wouldn't bother with the E cam. Sell it and call Ed Curtis at FTI an have him custom make a cam for you and your application. You'd be much happier, most power with best drivability for sure. The cobra manifold definitely looks better then a trick flow IMO.

Btw, I bought the same hatch carpet a few months ago, and it's about an inch or two too long, so it doesn't really fit like factory. (I never installed the seat backs so can't vouch for those) but a lot of people have made similar reviews. Maybe some steam would get it to sit closer to factory? Or you could trim the edges but then the seam around it would be gone. I just dropped it in as is and ran with it, but thought you would like to know
 

Blown347

Moderator
Staff member
And as stated, the gt40 combo will probably net you around 260 at the wheels. Don't get me wrong, there are guys cutting low 11's in the 1/4 with them, but it's a lot of custom work an porting. I'm sure you will still enjoy the seat of the pants feel the combo will have, but may be disappointed if you put it on a dyno.
 

mhass302

Guest
… Btw, I bought the same hatch carpet a few months ago, and it's about an inch or two too long, so it doesn't really fit like factory. (I never installed the seat backs so can't vouch for those) but a lot of people have made similar reviews. Maybe some steam would get it to sit closer to factory? Or you could trim the edges but then the seam around it would be gone. I just dropped it in as is and ran with it, but thought you would like to know

Well that stinks. I'm quite surprised that LMR would sell an item that doesn't fit properly.
 
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