1993 4-cyl. To v8 302 swap! Eye candy ;)

[Mnstr50]

Yeah AOD stuff is out of date. More people I guess are going to the AOD-E or 4R70W trans. If by the time I get around to upgrade the AOD there's not much out there I will step up to a 4R70W

sounds like your mind is already made on the electronic auto's, I'm sure you wont be disappointed with the end-result.

 

[Mnstr50]

Unless you want a trans brake or a manual valvebody I'd say get the baumann kit. My car when it still had stock heads on it would blow the tires off on the 1-2 shift and bark them on the 2-3. Now that it has gt40s the thing responds like way more of a beast then it is lol. This is also the only kit that you can raise your shift points to anything you want. Apart from those things, it fixes some pretty significant holding/pressure issues with the AOD and will make your trans last much longer.

I was looking at the Silver Fox because the auto/manual option goes to a "constant pressure" setup rather than throttle-dependent. I haven't counted the Baumann kit out, but seeing has how the transmission is being built/installed for me, I have to take into consideration the labor-time involved to install it. This is also assuming that my valve-body is a good reusable core. I think once the kit is purchased and installed, it would likely cost me the same as a complete valve-body (which has already been tested prior to shipping) from one of the other vendors. I think silver-fox raises the shift points to 5,800rpm or higher. Keep in mind, I'm still new to automatics and learning these AOD's. I don't think I'll be disappointed with ANY aftermarket shift-kit or valve body. I'm certain they're all an improvement over the stock combo.

My trans is shifting (rather downshifting) a bit funky after the 4.10's, which I hear is also a common symptom. Silver Fox states they can build the valve body to the specific application and rear-end gear. I am also torn between retaining the standard shift pattern (with the 1-D-1 shuffle) or going with the PA "Hold" or Silver Fox "1,D= 2,OD= 3", or even the Lentech "1, D=2, OD=3". Several options, and all from good vendors.

BTW- the only two vendors I've found to have a "constant pressure" shift kit, are TCI and Silver Fox. I haven't called PA or Lentech to determine if they offer such an option. I have no intention of going manual valve body.

 

[Mnstr50]

Late Model torque boxes are in, Competition engineering lower torque box plates are in, and the Maximum Motorsports subframe connectors are now in!

Just need to install the Lakewood lower control arms to wrap it up.

 

[Blown347]

Yea silver fox makes great stuff. They're the AOD gurus. That's probably a good option if you're paying labor rates anyway. I wanted a silver fox valvebody I just went the cheap route since I have much bigger project with my other fox. The AOD car is just a fun little street car

 

[Mnstr50]

Yea silver fox makes great stuff. They're the AOD gurus. That's probably a good option if you're paying labor rates anyway. I wanted a silver fox valvebody I just went the cheap route since I have much bigger project with my other fox. The AOD car is just a fun little street car

My AOD car is more for mixed driving. I want to have nice positive shifts, and have the valve body hold a gear for a few more rev's (such as the 5,800 Baumann advertises). It's still a toss up for me, since I don't have direct experience with either vendor and this is my first attempt at building an auto ANYTHING.

On the "mixed use" note; I also don't see a reason to gut the thing out and make it less comfortable for street use? Maybe I'm getting old, but shaving .10 seconds per 100-lbs isn't worth losing cruise/AC/and the rest of the interior. lol... I did manage to ditch the spare, since it was over-sized, and I didn't even have a jack! Otherwise, I can see going with an alloy cowl hood (in some cases lighter than fiberglass, and it doesn't require hood pins), the stock hood is WAY to heavy.

 

[Blown347]

Yea if you want "street car" weight savings there are a ton of things to do to take a bunch of weight out and not tough the interior, such as:

Aluminum heads (40-60 lbs)
Tubular k member (this can take every bit of 100 lbs off the nose if you swap to tubular a arms and coilovers too.)
Spare tire
Manual steering (26 lbs)
AC delete if you don't want or need it (30ish lbs)
Smog pump delete (15 lbs)
Aluminum wheels and tires (around 15 lbs each)
Aluminum driveshaft (10 lbs)
Aftermarket brakes like aerospace (6-15lbs per wheel)
And the list goes on

If you want more ET and MPH with less power, the good places to focus are the front end and rotating weight. 100 lbs of "sprung weight" is good for around .1, but "unsprung" or rotating weight like wheels, brakes, driveshaft, flywheel/flexplate make a much bigger difference. As a good rule 10-20lbs is generally worth .1

 

[Mnstr50]

Yea if you want "street car" weight savings there are a ton of things to do to take a bunch of weight out and not tough the interior, such as:

Aluminum heads (40-60 lbs)
Tubular k member (this can take every bit of 100 lbs off the nose if you swap to tubular a arms and coilovers too.)
Spare tire
Manual steering (26 lbs)
AC delete if you don't want or need it (30ish lbs)
Smog pump delete (15 lbs)
Aluminum wheels and tires (around 15 lbs each)
Aluminum driveshaft (10 lbs)
Aftermarket brakes like aerospace (6-15lbs per wheel)
And the list goes on

If you want more ET and MPH with less power, the good places to focus are the front end and rotating weight. 100 lbs of "sprung weight" is good for around .1, but "unsprung" or rotating weight like wheels, brakes, driveshaft, flywheel/flexplate make a much bigger difference. As a good rule 10-20lbs is generally worth .1

I have done some exhaustive research on weight control, I just don't think I'll be going down that road any time soon (on the larger items). For instance, I really don't know how durable tubular k-members are for a daily application. Some of the more robust designs weigh more than the "track only" versions. I also don't want to go with coil overs since I have already invested in the Eibach Sportlines that are on the car. I say this because some k-members don't give you the option of a spring perch, so you're stuck getting tubular control arms AND coil overs as well. I won't ditch the power steering (I wouldn't recommend it either unless you plan on doing straight-line racing only). AC has to stay, I'm in Arizona, and when it's 110+ out, you don't just get hot, you die, lol. I'm not entirely convinced that some of the values you've used are completely accurate. For instance, the alloy drive-shaft from FRPP only cuts like 4-lbs (from what I've found). Aftermarket brakes are a nice option, but also very pricey (depending on the manufacturer and what you're trying to accomplish), so I would prefer to just go with the wilwood 6R's in a 12.88" twice-piece rotor. Otherwise, a twice piece rotor should actually shave some weight if someone's on a budget. However, weight-loss to cost ratio gets out of control with some exotic stuff. Aerospace brakes are going to be a track-only (straight line) option. The weight savings on the wheel/tire package could be done with some expensive wheels (or even moderately priced wheels like Enkei RPF1's) but true weight savings (in your scenario) would be slicks and skinnies, again kind of a track only deal.

It's always fun trying to figure out a strategy and the end-goal!

I'll probably go alloy hood, alloy drive-shaft, for the near future. But the brakes, and wheels will be my next point of attention. I intend to add a 6-point roll bar, drive-shaft safety loop, MM panhard bar, and the torque arm (so adding back in some weight). It's a vicious cycle! lol

 

[87_notchfox]

Qa1 has a k member with perch option along with upr. I ran a upr chromoly k member on my daily with no issues. Weight savings is more for if u plan on hitting the track and competing but if it just a weekend racer not really wanting to get to deep. Just the essential small stuff for weight reduction

 

[Blown347]

If you're looking for street friendly light brakes, aerospace makes their pro street brakes which have vented rotors for street use.

My weights may be a little off, it was all off the top of my head. I weighed a lot of my stuff and wrote it down somewhere.

As for a k member, the only one actually rated for street use from the manufacturer is UPRs mild steel piece. But many people run other brands and chromoly versions on the street with success. UPR, QA1 and AJE all make tubular a arms with spring perches, and AJEs accepts the factory perches as well. (A couple others may but I know AJEs does)

Budget I'm sure is always the limiting factor but there are a lot of options.

PS I'm from Arizona, I remember the death lol

 

[Mnstr50]

Qa1 has a k member with perch option along with upr. I ran a upr chromoly k member on my daily with no issues. Weight savings is more for if u plan on hitting the track and competing but if it just a weekend racer not really wanting to get to deep. Just the essential small stuff for weight reduction

Believe me, I appreciate the fundamentals of weight reduction (it's a lot easier on the driveline and it can also improve MPG, so it's not just a race-only deal). I've just come to learn that some aftermarket hardware really isn't as durable as the factory components. So, when I make a deicison on aftermarket pieces, the fabrication and service life (stress, strain, NVH, etc.) is critical.

 

[Mnstr50]

If you're looking for street friendly light brakes, aerospace makes their pro street brakes which have vented rotors for street use.

My weights may be a little off, it was all off the top of my head. I weighed a lot of my stuff and wrote it down somewhere.

As for a k member, the only one actually rated for street use from the manufacturer is UPRs mild steel piece. But many people run other brands and chromoly versions on the street with success. UPR, QA1 and AJE all make tubular a arms with spring perches, and AJEs accepts the factory perches as well. (A couple others may but I know AJEs does)

Budget I'm sure is always the limiting factor but there are a lot of options.

PS I'm from Arizona, I remember the death lol

Actually, you did a great job on the weight values. I'm just obsessed with factual information. We constantly read and hear about stuff online that just doesn't "add up", that also goes for horsepower figures associated with certain modifications (like mine for instance).

I appreciate you pointing out the street-ability of K-members. I'm not saying someone can't run just about any k-member on their car, but it's the repeated/frequent use and the cycles these parts see that eventually fatigue the aftermarket items and leads to failure. Maybe gussets or other minor reinforements would help?

 

[Blown347]

Actually, you did a great job on the weight values. I'm just obsessed with factual information. We constantly read and hear about stuff online that just doesn't "add up", that also goes for horsepower figures associated with certain modifications (like mine for instance).

I appreciate you pointing out the street-ability of K-members. I'm not saying someone can't run just about any k-member on their car, but it's the repeated/frequent use and the cycles these parts see that eventually fatigue the aftermarket items and leads to failure. Maybe gussets or other minor reinforements would help?

You may be right about gusseting, but if you were to buy mild steel pieces and not chromoly I wouldn't worry. The problem people run into with chromoly is that there is absolutely no give in it, so road bumps cause it to crack rather then flex the way steel does.

 

[broncojunkie]

I've been rounding up used parts to replace all of the parts the previous owner stripped in an attempt to reduce weight. Plastic pieces, back seat, carpet, speakers, etc. I've finally got most of what I need besides carpet for the passenger area and some small plastic trim pieces. I think it cost me around $7-800. There's probably 100 lbs of material there. I'm pretty sure I could spend $800 on engine mods that would gain more performance than dropping 100lbs.

I guess my point is, these are fun cars and parts are getting harder to find. If you want a stripped-down race car, I suggest buying a later-model mustang or possibly something else altogether. Id like to punch the guy who stripped mine...preferably in the throat, lol! It's easy to get carried away I guess, but it just makes me cringe when people hack these fox bodies up.

 

[Mnstr50]

I've been rounding up used parts to replace all of the parts the previous owner stripped in an attempt to reduce weight. Plastic pieces, back seat, carpet, speakers, etc. I've finally got most of what I need besides carpet for the passenger area and some small plastic trim pieces. I think it cost me around $7-800. There's probably 100 lbs of material there. I'm pretty sure I could spend $800 on engine mods that would gain more performance than dropping 100lbs.

I guess my point is, these are fun cars and parts are getting harder to find. If you want a stripped-down race car, I suggest buying a later-model mustang or possibly something else altogether. Id like to punch the guy who stripped mine...preferably in the throat, lol! It's easy to get carried away I guess, but it just makes me cringe when people hack these fox bodies up.

You've got a good point. I really enjoy keeping the interior intact. I want to get a roll-bar (if it's necessary) for safety purposes, and it does add a bit of rigidity. My point is that "modern cars" (such as my 12') have EVERYTHING without having to really compromise. I don't see why we can't integrate everything we want into a build (run 10's, 11's, or whatever, and still have full creature comforts and interior). The industry has certainly come far enough that we can accomplish it (I didn't say anything about it being cheap). The late-model muscle cars are defying the limits of weight (darn near everything weighs close to 4,000 lbs or better).

 

[Mnstr50]

You may be right about gusseting, but if you were to buy mild steel pieces and not chromoly I wouldn't worry. The problem people run into with chromoly is that there is absolutely no give in it, so road bumps cause it to crack rather then flex the way steel does.

That's a very going point, and something I thought about AFTER I had completed my post. The focus should also be on the materials that are being used for the build.

 

[Mnstr50]

Ok- so I decided to find out what this thing can do. A friend of mine was kind enough to help! lol...
The stock stall converter is really tight, so it's a real sluggish take off from a dig. With that said, here are the details of my buddies ride;
1962 Chevy II
383 stroker, iron heads, mild built, 360 flywheel horsepower crate motor
Dual plane intake manifold, single carb
Only belt driven component is the water pumpe and Alternator
Mechanical, fixed fan
Ram horn manifolds, straight pipes to the rear of the car
TH350 trans
Shift kit
2,xxx stall
Hurst shifter with reverse lock-out
I'm not sure what his rear-end gear ratio is, but I believe me mentioned 3.2x:1
No power steering, no AC, no heater, stripped down, on 225's in the rear.
We made three runs,
The first run was with me in OD (my car wont shift out of 3rd when full-throttle anyway), and him in 3rd (D).
Ford 1, Chevy 0. Had him by two or three lengths
The Second run, manually shifting the trans. Ford 0, Chevy 1. He had me by three lengths
- no chance on this run, my trans is really inconsistent with shifting (stock valve body) so, I had to throttle it to get it to shift (wrapped it to 6,500rpm).
The Third run, he was in 3rd (D), and I was in 3rd (D). Ford 1, Chevy 0. Neck and neck, until I got into 3rd, and walked him.
I want to clarify his trans was shifting around 4,500rpm. I could hear him loosing traction off the line. His Chevy II has A LOT more in it. My trans was shifted out of 1st at 5,600-5,800rpm, and shifted out of second at 5,200rpm, and held 3rd past 6,000rpm
Conclusion; he will easily smoke me if we manually shift, and he's got more power than me. He was kind enough to "play" along as I couldn't manually shift mine consistently. I desperately need a valve body for more consistent shifts (when working it manually) as well as providing more consistent shift-points when I just want to leave it in drive and floor it. The stall converter "should" really wake up the hit off the line. All runs done from a dig.
Here's a picture of us coming back from the track.

 

[Mnstr50]

Here she is this evening, after a wash. I've decided to purchase 8mm hub-centric spacers for the front wheels as I am rubbing at full lock, and the front wheels are a bit too tuched. This is further exaggerated by the rear SN95 axles (being 3/4" longer per side). 8mm is the "max" you can go before needing to step to a longer wheel stud for safety purposes (per Maximum Motorspots).

 

[Blown347]

Sweet! Looks real good
Late model resto and a lot of other places sell travel limiters that you install on the tie rod to keep you from rubbing at full lock. They're pretty cheap and come in a kit so you can shim it to whatever you need. It's a good option to avoid wheel spacers.

 

[Mnstr50]

Sweet! Looks real good
Late model resto and a lot of other places sell travel limiters that you install on the tie rod to keep you from rubbing at full lock. They're pretty cheap and come in a kit so you can shim it to whatever you need. It's a good option to avoid wheel spacers.

Thanks! I saw those, and might use those later, but I actually wanted the spacers to get the wheel a little more "flush" with the fender line. Especially with how the rear wheel/tire sits.

 

[Mnstr50]

Ok here are some pictures;
Subframe connectors-

Lower Competition Engineering plates-

Lower torque box braces -

Differential cover, Lakewood lower control arms, subframe connectors-

Notice the rear lower control arm mounting brackets, they are welded in-